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复活冷战是时空错乱之举

Reviving the Cold War Is Anachronistic

——外交部副部长乐玉成接受观察者网专访

– Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng’s Exclusive Interview with Guancha.cn

一、美国政府高官近来频频出击，对中国肆意抹黑，造谣污蔑，大打出手，没有做不到，只有想不到。美国部分政客抛弃基本的法律规则、外交准则和政治道德，表现出十足的政治流氓做派。美国政客如此堕落，您有何感想？

Guancha: Recently, senior US officials have come out frequently to attack and smear China. Their onslaught has gone far beyond even the wildest imaginations. A handful of US politicians have abandoned fundamental laws and rules, diplomatic norms and political ethics, and have acted in pure political hooliganism. What’s your comment on such degenerate practices of US politicians?

你的问题一下子就点出了美国一些政客行为方式的两大特点：一是说谎张口就来，二是违法家常便饭。

Le Yucheng: Your question rightly sums up the two major features of some US politicians. First, they lie readily. Second, they break the law habitually.

不说谎，这是最起码的做人准则，更不用说政府高官和高级外交官了。你可以有不同观点，表达不满或反对，或者干脆“无可奉告”，但不能罔顾事实，无中生有。可现在的美国一些政客经常谎话连篇，尤其是诋毁抹黑中国时信口开河，说起谎来脸不红心不跳。什么美国重建了中国啊，中国会统治美国啊，美国和中国做生意吃亏了啊，新冠病毒是武汉病毒研究所人工合成的啊，中国窃取美国新冠疫苗的知识产权啊，华为、TikTok等企业直接向中国国家安全机关提供个人数据啊，14亿中国人在国内受到监控、迫害啊，中国政府在新疆搞宗教迫害、种族灭绝啊，等等，听起来简直是天方夜谭，让人啼笑皆非，连三岁小孩都骗不了。有些热心网友正在收集他们的政治谎言，并打算汇编成册，这会是一个对全世界很好的反面教材。

Do not lie – that is the most basic norm for the general public, let alone key government officials and senior diplomats. You may dissent, disgruntle, and object, or just make no comment. But you may not ignore facts and churn out rumors. Some US politicians, however, are telling packs of lies, particularly when it comes to smearing China. They do so without even the slightest trace of shame. Among many others, they claim that the United States rebuilt China; China wants to rule the United States; the United States is ripped off by doing business with China; COVID-19 was created in the Wuhan Institute of Virology; China steals US intellectual property on COVID-19 vaccines; Huawei, TikTok and other companies directly provide personal data to China’s national security authorities; the 1.4 billion Chinese people are under surveillance and persecution in China; the Chinese government is carrying out religious persecution and ethnic genocide in Xinjiang. These assertions are so fictional and preposterous that they cannot even deceive little kids. Some Internet users are collecting these political lies and plan to publish them. Once published, it will be a typical negative example for the world.

再一个就是“违法”。众所周知，美国一贯对国际法合则用、不合则弃，对别人大讲国际法，对自己则讲“美国例外”，“卓尔不群”，可以凌驾于国际法之上。美国对中国的打压完全于法无据，从贸易加税、断供华为、禁用TikTok、抓扣中方人员，到售台武器、制裁中国政府和香港特区政府官员、关闭中国驻休斯敦总领馆，等等，没有一件符合国际法。长期以来，美国四处策动颜色革命，粗暴干涉别国内政，任意实施长臂管辖、武力威胁乃至斩首行动，简直无法无天。美国已经接连退出十多项国际条约和国际组织，成了“退群毁约”的世界冠军。特别是在全球合作抗疫的关键时刻，美国无端攻击并退出世界卫生组织，停止向该组织提供资金，这就好比大家都在忙于救火，美国却把水管给掐断了。这完全突破了国际关系的道德底线，完全违背了国际法和《联合国宪章》基本原则。美国口口声声要建立以规则为基础的国际秩序，而美国的规则就是强权，就是恣意妄为的特权。美国前驻乌克兰大使约万诺维奇女士就说，美国搞“无德外交”，不可持续，注定失败。

As for breaking laws, the United States is always selective about the application of international law. It preaches international law to others but sticks to “American Exceptionalism”, putting itself above the international law. The US repressive moves against China have no legal basis at all. None of its actions conforms with international law - increasing tariffs, cutting off supplies to Huawei, banning TikTok, detaining Chinese citizens, selling arms to Taiwan, imposing sanctions on Chinese central government and Hong Kong SAR government officials, and closing Chinese Consulate-General in Houston.

Over the years, the United States has been acting with absolutely no respect for the law and justice when it goes around the world to incite color revolution here and there, grossly interfere in others’ internal affairs, arbitrarily enforce long-arm jurisdiction, threaten use of force, and even carry out decapitation operations. The United States has withdrawn from over a dozen international treaties and organizations, crowning itself as the world champion in this respect. In particular, at the critical moment of global cooperation against COVID-19, the United States made groundless accusations against the World Health Organization, pulled out of it, and suspended its funding for WHO. That is like when everyone is busy putting off the fire, the US moves to shut off the water. And that has crossed the moral line in international relations, and completely violated the basic principles of international law and the UN Charter. The United States claims that it wants a rules-based international order. But in fact, its so-called “rules” is nothing but power politics and US privileges to do whatever it wants. As former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch pointed out, the United States “blunt and amoral” foreign policy “cannot work over the long haul”.

二、美国少数政客逢中必反，极力挑动中美意识形态对抗，要求其他国家都要为美国的反华政策选边站队，列举了一连串国家和地区，似乎他们都是美国的棋子或跟班。这种让别的国家为其政策当“炮灰”的做法，您认为行得通吗？美国是不是要把中美关系带入“新冷战”陷阱？

Guancha: A few US politicians have taken a wholesale approach against China, provoking ideological confrontation between the two countries and demanding other countries side with their anti-China policy. They have touted a list of countries and regions as the pawns or sidekicks of the United States. Do you think the United States will get what it wants by using others as “cannon fodder” to advance its own agenda? Is the US dragging China and the US into a “new Cold War”?

美国近期针对中国的一系列做法，是在挑动意识形态对抗，在21世纪复活“冷战”，让人感到“麦卡锡主义”的幽灵又在美重现。上世纪50年代，美国国内掀起了疯狂的反共浪潮，成千上万的华裔被怀疑为“间谍”，2000多万人接受了所谓“清查”，甚至3岁的小孩也要签署“忠诚宣誓书”。对于这一荒唐行径，英语里都留下了一句话叫“find reds under the beds”，意思就是“到床底下查找赤色分子”。现在美国对华人科学家进行“猎巫”行动，任意滋扰、抓捕中国留学生的做法，同当年麦卡锡时代何其相似。美国国内的华裔科学家、教授、学者，以及支持同中国开展合作的美国人，现在都噤若寒蝉，人人自危，随时都有可能被FBI约谈、搜查甚至抓捕入狱。这种以种族和意识形态划线的做法很危险，不要忘了当年希特勒法西斯就是从反共和迫害犹太人起家的，我们不能不引以为戒。

Le Yucheng: The string of recent actions taken by the United States against China are aimed at stoking ideological confrontation and reviving the Cold War in the 21st century. It feels like that the specter of McCarthyism is resurfacing in the United States. In the 1950s when the United States was gripped by anti-communist hysteria, tens of thousands of people from the Chinese community there were suspected as “spies”. Over 20 million people had to go through “screening”. Even three-year-old kids had to sign a “loyalty oath”. The idiom, “find reds under the beds”, was coined to describe such insane paranoia.

Today, the witch hunt among Chinese scientists as well as arbitrary harassment and willful detainment of Chinese students in the United States are so reminiscent of the dark era of McCarthyism. Scientists, professors and scholars of Chinese descendant in the United States and those Americans who support cooperation with China are too scared to speak up. None of them feels safe anymore. They may be interrogated, searched, or even arrested by the FBI anytime. Taking actions on the basis of race and ideology is very dangerous. People should not forget that Adolf Hitler and fascism rose from suppressing communism and persecuting Jews. We must take a warning from these lessons.

美国的这些政客疯狂反共，渲染“赤色威胁”，实际上是企图用意识形态对抗定义中美关系，掩盖其遏制中国的战略意图，为其在国际上组建所谓“自由民主联盟”，构筑遏华小圈子树一个挡箭牌。但美国政客们搞错了时空，似乎已经忘了，世界早已走出冷战，人类已步入21世纪全球化时代。除了一两个小跟班之外，绝大多数国家拒绝被美国绑上战车，大家想的都是如何同舟共济战胜疫情、拯救生命、恢复经济，对搞意识形态对抗、鼓动“新冷战”不感兴趣甚至十分反感。日前，48个国家的前政要、专家学者发起“任何针对中国的新冷战都违背人类利益”的全球连线会议，发表14种语言的“拒绝新冷战”共同声明，可以说是对美国拉帮结派、分裂世界行径的有力喝阻。美国务卿蓬佩奥自己都承认，组建一个针对北京的国际联盟“是困难的”，对有那么多的国家支持中国感到“吃惊和失望”。

In fact, through their anti-communism craziness and the hyping up of the so-called “red menace”, the US politicians are attempting to define China-US relations with ideological confrontation and cover up their real strategic agenda to contain China, put together a so-called “coalition of free democracies”, and build a clique against China. But they seem to still live in the past and have forgotten that the Cold War has been long gone, and that mankind are already in the age of globalization in the 21st century. Other than one or two US henchmen, the overwhelming majority of countries refuse to be hijacked by the US onto its chariot. All they think about is how to work together to defeat COVID-19, save lives, and revive the economy. They have no interest in, and even resent, ideological confrontation and a “new Cold War”.

Recently, a group of former statesmen and scholars from 48 countries initiated an online event themed “A new Cold War against China is against the interests of humanity”. They issued a joint statement, “No to the New Cold War”, in 14 languages. It was a strong call for the United States to stop forming cliques and dividing the world. Even Secretary Pompeo himself admitted the difficulty in building an international alliance against China, and was “surprised and dismayed” that so many countries support China.

三、最近美国威胁关闭TikTok（“抖音”海外版），要求其在45天内出售美国业务，并签署了两份打压抖音和微信母公司的行政令。美国高官还频频对华为等中国企业和应用软件采取制裁措施。美国这样做意欲何为？

Guancha: The United States threatened to shut down TikTok and demanded that the company sell its US business within 45 days. Two executive orders were signed to crack down on TikTok and the parent company of WeChat. Senior US officials have also taken sanctioning measures against Huawei and other Chinese companies as well as Chinese APPs. What do you think is the purpose of the United States?

你的问题让我想到日前朋友圈里的一幅漫画：一条大路的入口处树着一个美国路牌，上面写着“自由市场”，一只可爱的“TikTok”小猪边走边吃，可待它长到膘肥体壮，走到尽头却发现山姆大叔正拿着一把刀准备屠宰它。这是目前在美中国企业处境的生动写照。

Le Yucheng: Your question reminds me of a cartoon I saw on social media: At the entrance to a road erects a US signpost that reads “free market”. Along the road, a cute piglet, representing TikTok, is strolling and eating. What awaits it at the end of the road, however, is Uncle Sam with a knife in hand, ready to slaughter it after it becomes fattening. That is a vivid image of the situation of Chinese businesses in the United States today.

这几天，美国打压TikTok的事情闹得很大。美国政府在拿不出任何真凭实据的情况下，对TikTok进行有罪推定，威胁在45天内强制出售或禁用它。TikTok为了求生存，近一年来一直与美方沟通，甚至不惜委曲求全，包括管理层全部聘用美国人，用户数据全都存储在美国和新加坡，公开审核政策和算法源代码，雇佣1500名美国员工，还承诺创造1万个就业岗位，等等。美方提出的几乎所有要求都满足了，但TikTok还是在劫难逃，即使被收购也要把大笔钱交给美国政府。这哪里是什么“交易的艺术”？分明是强盗的逻辑，明火执仗的抢劫！

The TikTok-bashing by the United States has caused quite a stir in recent days. Without producing any solid evidence, the US administration is taking actions against TikTok based on the presumption of guilt, and threatening to force a sellout within 45 days or simply ban it. To save the company, TikTok has been communicating with the US for nearly a year. It has even made such big compromises as instituting an all-American management team, storing all US user data in the United States and Singapore, making its review policy and algorithm source code public, hiring 1,500 Americans, and promising to create another 10,000 jobs. The company has met almost all US demands, but still cannot be spared. Even if it ends up being acquired, a substantial portion of the money must be paid to the US government. What kind of “art of the deal” is this? This is sheer gangster logic and daylight robbery.

TikTok有什么错？它就是一个给美民众提供休闲娱乐、才艺展示、交流分享的平台，跟国家安全毫不相干。然而匹夫无罪，怀璧其罪。TikTok“卖血”、断臂，美国仍要置它于死地，即使换血都不行，唯一真实原因就是它有中国血统。中国网友评价美国当局“吃相太难看”。针对一家中国民营企业，从总统到各个强力政府部门全都扑了上来，就像几只老虎张牙舞爪围猎一只小兔子。全世界的人都看在眼里，对美国这种巧取豪夺很不齿。

What sin has TikTok committed? It is simply a platform for the American public to showcase their talent and spread joy. It has nothing to do with national security. But wrongdoings can always be conveniently fabricated. The United States wants to strangle TikTok, no matter what painful compromises the company makes. The real and the only reason is that it is a Chinese company. As some Chinese Internet users commented, these US moves are “utterly disgraceful”. To suppress a private company from China, the whole of the US government, from President to the powerful agencies, is ganging up, like tigers preying on a little rabbit. The whole world is watching with contempt the looting and robbery by the United States.

这也让我想到华为的遭遇。美国同样是以莫须有的借口，在全球剿杀华为，连孟晚舟这样一个弱女子都不放过，她已经被软禁在加拿大600余天了。不少中国企业都胆战心惊，高管都不敢涉足美国。人们不禁要问，美国一向标榜的自由市场、竞争中立、法治精神都到哪去了？有国际媒体评论说，美国犯了严重的“恐高症”，就是恐惧别国的高科技， 为此不惜采取“数字炮舰政策”。美国自身污迹斑斑，还针对他国搞什么“清洁网络”，把国际互联网变成了“美国单边网”。

This also reminds me of what Huawei has been through. With similarly fabricated allegations, the United States is hunting down Huawei around the world. It even went after Ms. Meng Wanzhou, who has been put under house arrest in Canada for more than 600 days. Such actions have sent chills down the spines of Chinese businesses, whose executives no longer dare to travel to the United States. People cannot help asking: Where is the United States that styles itself as the example of free market, competitive neutrality and the rule of law? Some international media describe the United States as being “technophobic” and pursuing a “digital gunboat policy”, but what it actually fears is other countries getting ahead of it in high-tech. Preaching a “clean network” while having stains all over itself, the United States is turning the “Internet” into a “US-net” that only serves its own interests.

四、美国在国际上大搞单边主义，动辄“退群毁约”，成了全球治理最大破坏因素，给全球稳定和发展带来巨大不确定性。对此您怎么看？中国在全球治理上能发挥什么样的作用？

Guancha: The United States pursues unilateralism unscrupulously and withdraws from international organizations and treaties at will. It has become the biggest destabilizing factor in global governance, and made the prospects of global stability and development very uncertain. What do you make of this? What role can China play in global governance?

美国在国际上大搞分裂、制造对抗、打压异己，唯恐天下不乱，使联合国、世贸组织、世卫组织等国际机构都陷入困境，种种有利于全球治理和国际合作的议程都推行不下去。美方这些所作所为，就是想搞唯我独尊的单极世界，把全球化变成美国化，把全球共治变成美国独霸，明显悖潮流、逆大势、违民意，是行不通的。

Le Yucheng: The United States is stoking division and confrontation, attacking dissenting views, and creating disorder around the world. It has caused predicament for international institutions including the UN, WTO and WHO, and put global governance and international cooperation agenda in jeopardy. Its sole aim is to install a uni-polar world where the United States lords it over all others, where globalization becomes “Americanization”, and where global governance gives way to US hegemony. The US attempt contravenes the trend of our times and the will of the people. It is destined to fail.

中国坚持走和平发展道路，倡导构建人类命运共同体，这根植于“世界大同”“协和万邦”等中华文化传统，同时，这也反映了世界人民普遍的诉求。中国从来没想过统治世界，而是积极努力造福世界。中国的发展不是为了与美国争霸，而是让老百姓过上好日子。中国积极参与全球治理，不是为了取代谁，而是要发挥一个大国应有的作用。疫情以来，我们向150多个国家和国际组织提供援助，同各国分享抗疫经验，帮助发展中国家尤其是最不发达国家应对疫情，积极支持世卫组织发挥重要作用，推动完善全球公共卫生治理。在疫苗研发和分配问题上，中美表现形成鲜明对比。中国努力研发疫苗、并宣布其为全球公共产品。美国却试图大量囤积、垄断疫苗，表现出赤裸裸的自私自利。

China is committed to pursing peaceful development and building a community with a shared future for mankind. This commitment is rooted in the traditional Chinese value of “common good of the world” and “peace and harmony among all nations”. It is also the shared aspiration of people across the world.

China never has the intention to rule the world; we want to contribute to the common good of the world. China strives for development not to compete with the United States for supremacy, but to bring a better life to its own people. China takes an active part in global governance not to supplant anyone, but to play its due role as a major country.

In responding to COVID-19, China has offered assistance to more than 150 countries and international organizations. We have shared our containment experience, and helped other developing countries, especially the least developed ones, to cope with the virus. We have supported WHO in playing its important role, and worked to improve global public health governance. China and the United States form a sharp contrast when it comes to vaccine development and distribution. China is making every effort to develop a COVID-19 vaccine and has pledged to make it a global public good, whereas the United States is trying to hoard and monopolize vaccines, caring about no one but itself.

从本质上看，中国和美国在国际秩序和全球治理问题上的矛盾，绝不是美国一些政客所说的威权专制与自由民主之争，而是多边主义与单边主义之争、公平正义与霸权强权之争、天下为公与美国优先之争。全世界都看得很清楚，哪条道路才是人间正道，代表历史正确方向。全世界爱好和平与正义的人们应该敢于对美国单边强权说不，一起推动美国讲公理、守法律、走正道。

In essence, the difference between China and the United States on the international order and global governance is not what some US politicians have portrayed as “tyranny vs. freedom”, but between multilateralism and unilateralism, between equity and justice on the one hand and hegemony and “might makes right” on the other, and between the common good and “America First”.

It is only too clear to the world which one is the right way to go and represents the trend of history. All peace- and justice-loving people in the world should stand up to US unilateralist moves and power politics, and come together in getting the United States to return to the right path of reason, law and justice.

五、特朗普执政团队在各种讲话和行动中，恶毒攻击中国共产党，割裂中国共产党和中国人民的血肉联系，却号称和中国人民在一起。您对此有何评论？

Guancha: Trump administration officials are using all occasions to viciously attack the Communist Party of China (CPC) and pitting the Chinese people against the CPC. But at the same time, they claim that they side with the Chinese people. What do you make of all this?

美国一些政客的反共言论，充分反映了他们对中国国情的无知，对中国共产党的无知。中国共产党与中国人民休戚与共，血肉相连，习近平主席那句“我将无我，不负人民”的名言充分表达了中国共产党人深厚的为民情怀。

Le Yucheng: The hostile remarks on the CPC by some US politicians only expose their ignorance of China and the Party. The CPC has unbreakable bond with the Chinese people, and stands with them rain or shine. The Party’s faithful commitment to the people is best described by a famous quote from President Xi Jinping, “For the good of my people, I will put aside my own well-being.”

让我们看看这些年，每当人民遭遇困难和灾害的危急关头，共产党员总是冲在第一线打头阵。面对突如其来的新冠肺炎疫情，全国3900多万名党员干部战斗在抗疫一线，支援武汉抗疫的医护人员中80%是中共党员。脱贫攻坚的主力军同样是共产党员。我们累计选派近300万名第一书记或驻村干部，有近800名扶贫干部牺牲在脱贫攻坚战场，其中就有我们熟知的广西某扶贫村第一书记黄文秀，年仅30岁牺牲在扶贫路上。中国南方刚刚经历了水灾，奋斗在抗洪救灾第一线的还是共产党员。安徽省一个消防救援队政治教导员陈陆在搜救被困群众时英勇牺牲，用他的血肉之躯践行了共产党员“在人民群众最需要的时候冲锋在前”的誓言。这样的例子不胜枚举。

In recent years, CPC members always took the lead to brave danger and disasters to serve the people. When COVID-19 hit the country, over 39 million CPC members nationwide stepped up to fight the virus on the front line. Of the medical workers sent to Wuhan, 80 percent were CPC members.

In the battle against abject poverty, CPC members have been the mainstay as well. Nearly three million CPC members have been selected to serve as Party secretaries or take charge of poverty alleviation in poor villages. Nearly 800 officials responsible for poverty alleviation made the ultimate sacrifice on duty. One of them was Huang Wenxiu, who worked for poverty alleviation in Guangxi and died at the age of only 30.

When floods hit southern China recently, those on the front line of disaster relief were again CPC members. Chen Lu, a CPC member and a fire fighter in Anhui Province, was taken away by floods in a search and rescue operation. He exemplified CPC’s ethos with his life – step forward whenever our people need us, come what may. There are numerous examples like this.

中国共产党干得好不好，不是由美国个别反华分子说了算，而是由中国老百姓自己来评判。近来美国许多学者都认为，在中国共产党领导下，中国政府推动经济发展，快速回应人民关切，绝大多数中国人民都支持中国共产党并感到自豪。最近多家美国民调机构数据显示，中国共产党在中国人民中的支持率高达95%。一个政党拥有这么高的民众支持率，在世界上即使不是唯一，也是十分罕见的。

The performance of the CPC can only be evaluated by the Chinese people, instead of a few anti-China Americans. Many US scholars have expressed the view recently that under the CPC leadership, the Chinese government has boosted the economy and responded promptly to people’s needs, and that the overwhelming majority of the Chinese people support the CPC and feel proud of their country. As recent polls conducted by multiple US institutions have shown, the approval rating for the CPC among the Chinese people is as high as 95 percent. Having such a high level of popular support is very rare, if not unique, for a political party around the world.

在过去中美交往近50年间，中国共产党从来不是两国关系的障碍，而是两国互利合作的引领者和推动力量。我不理解美国政客对中共的敌意从何而来？要知道与尼克松跨越太平洋握手的是中共领导人，与美方达成中美三个联合公报的也是中共领导人，美国白宫和国务院官员几乎每天都在和中共党员打交道，怎么突然间中共变成了美国的威胁和挑战？中共并没有改变，说明问题还是出在美国政客自己身上。

In the nearly 50 years of China-US interaction, the CPC has never been an obstacle to bilateral relations. On the contrary, it has been the leading and driving force for mutually beneficial cooperation. I find it difficult to understand why those US politicians get so hostile to the CPC. In the final analysis, it was with CPC leaders that President Richard Nixon had the handshake across the Pacific Ocean. It was with CPC leaders that the United States agreed on the three China-US joint communiqués. White House and State Department officials are dealing with CPC members almost every day. How could the CPC suddenly become a threat and challenge to the United States? Since the CPC remains unchanged, the problem is with the US politicians.

六、针对美国对华肆意打压遏制，国内外舆论有两种看法，一种认为要忍一忍，不要和美国反华政客一般见识，被他们带入对抗的陷阱。还有一种观点认为不能示弱，要坚决回击，针锋相对。您倾向于哪一种观点？

Guancha: There are two different views at home and abroad on how China should respond to US crackdown and containment. One argues that China should put up with them, and should not lower itself to the same level as those anti-China US politicians so as not to fall into their trap of China-US confrontation. The other believes that China should not appear weak and it should fight back resolutely with tit-for-tat countermeasures. Which one do you agree with?

中国始终奉行独立自主的和平外交政策，广交朋友，广结善缘。中国人从来都襟怀坦荡、以诚待人，不会咄咄逼人，更不会仗势欺人。但谦和有礼不意味着不讲是非、放弃原则。在涉及国家核心利益和民族尊严的问题上，我们无路可退。我们如果退避三舍，他们就会要求退避百舍，以切香肠的方式步步紧逼，没完没了地损害我国家主权和尊严。对于美方一些人信口雌黄、造谣污蔑，如果我们总是忍气吞声、无动于衷，很容易误导国际舆论，让谎言大行其道。别忘了，当年美国就是靠一小瓶“洗衣粉”毁了伊拉克，叙利亚也是因为几张所谓化武袭击的“摆拍”照片而平白无故遭受军事打击。我们绝不能允许这样的悲剧在中国重演。

Le Yucheng: China always pursues an independent foreign policy of peace, and hopes to make friends and maintain good relations with all countries. The Chinese people are aboveboard, honest and sincere. We are not aggressive. We do not bully. Nevertheless, being modest and gracious does not mean having no sense of right and wrong or giving up principles. On issues concerning China’s core interests and national dignity, there is simply no room for us to back down. If we give up an inch, they will ask us to back off a mile and through salami tactics, they will never stop undermining China’s sovereignty and dignity. Some people in the United States have been spreading rumors and making slanderous attacks on China. If we always stay silent and do nothing about it, the international community will be easily misled by these lies. We should not forget that Iraq was destroyed because the United States displayed a little test tube containing washing powder, and Syria suffered military strikes because of a few staged photos of alleged chemical weapons attacks. We will never allow such tragedies to happen to China.

我们的原则很明确，不惹事，但也不怕事，不会随小人起舞，但也绝不容他们胡来。我们从不打第一枪，每一步都是后发制人，都是防守反制、绝地反击。再说，中国共产党成立近百年、新中国成立七十多年，我们什么大风大浪、枪林弹雨没见过。历史上美国没少对我们进行各种围堵、制裁，我们也挺过来了，而且道路越走越宽广，前途越来越光明。小平同志讲过，“世界上最不怕孤立、最不怕封锁、最不怕制裁的就是中国”。最近，美国宣布制裁中国中央政府和香港特区政府11名官员，并没有吓倒我们。相反，都觉得上美国制裁名单很光荣。美国的制裁名单变成了一份“表扬名单”。

Our guiding principles are very clear. We do not provoke, and we will not flinch from provocations, either. We will not move to the beat of villains, and we will not put up with their wickedness, either. We never fire the first shot. Every response has been a move of self-defense and counterattack. It’s been almost 100 years since the founding of the CPC and 70-plus years since the founding of the People’s Republic. We have endured all kinds of challenges and hardships. The United States tried many times before to contain and impose sanctions on China in history. We have not only survived, but also thrived. As Comrade Deng Xiaoping once pointed out, “The last country in the world to be afraid of isolation, blockade or sanctions is China”. We are not intimidated by the recent US sanctions against 11 officials from China’s central government and the government of the Hong Kong SAR. On the contrary, people feel honored to be on that list. The list of sanction has become a “list of recognition”.

有人说中国外交更加强势、在国际上更加咄咄逼人，是导致中美关系紧张的重要原因。对此我很不认同。对外扩张、称王称霸不是中国的文化传统。但中国发展了，进步了，自然就应该为国际社会多尽责、多作贡献，这也是国际社会的普遍呼声。比如，中国的联合国会费占比由20年前的1%增到现在的12.5%、维和预算占比增加到15%；我们是联合国五常中派出维和人员最多的国家；我们为发展中国家提供的援助也比过去大幅增加。这有什么不好呢？有什么可指责的呢？美国一些人过去批评中国“搭便车”，但当中国为世界出钱出力，提供更多公共产品时，又被指责为带有战略意图、有争霸野心，这是不是自相矛盾？

Some people attribute the tensions between China and the United States to China’s allegedly more assertive and aggressive foreign policy. I do not agree. Expansionism and hegemony are never part of China’s cultural tradition. While China is making progress in its development, it should naturally shoulder greater international responsibility and make more contribution to the world. And that is also a common expectation from the international community.

For example, China’s share in membership contributions to the UN has jumped from one percent 20 years ago to today’s 12.5 percent. Its share in UN peacekeeping budget has gone up to 15 percent. China has sent more peacekeepers than any other permanent members of the UN Security Council. Our assistance to other developing countries has also significantly increased. Which part of this is not good for the world? What is there to accuse? Some Americans used to call China a “free-rider”. But when China is contributing financially and materially to the world and providing more public goods, they say this is driven by strategic motives and hegemonic ambitions. Aren’t they self-contradictory?

七、中美关系越来越严峻，您认为这种严峻局面还将持续多久？当前最迫切需要解决的问题是什么？

Guancha: The situation of China-US relations is getting more and more grave. How long do you think this will last? What are the most pressing issues to be resolved at the moment?

中美如何相处，不仅攸关两国17亿人的福祉，也关系到全球70多亿人的未来。对于中美关系，不能只看眼前，不能被极少数反华势力带偏节奏、带错方向。要把中美关系放在世界百年未有之大变局的大背景下，放在世界和平与发展的大潮流下来看。有些问题也许一年两年解决不了，但我们要肩负起历史责任来，向前看，看长远，跳出当前选举政治，走出情绪化思维，回归理性务实，从落实王毅国务委员提议的“三份清单”入手，就不难找到出路。

Le Yucheng: The way China and the United States choose to live with each other concerns the well-being of the 1.7 billion Chinese and American peoples, and the future of the over seven billion people on this planet. When handling the China-US relationship, one should not only focus on what is at hand, or allow a tiny minority of anti-China elements to set the tone or lead it astray. It is vital to put the relationship in the broader context of the changing international landscape unseen in a century and the defining trend of peace and development of our times. Some issues may take more than one or two years to resolve. Yet we must shoulder the historic responsibility, take a forward-looking attitude, and assume a long-term perspective. It is important to think outside the box of electoral politics, take emotions out of the equation, and return to reason and pragmatism. We should start with the “three lists” proposed by State Councilor Wang Yi. Then the way forward won’t be so hard to find.

首先要对话沟通。对话不能中断，尤其两国外交部门不能陷入“无线电静默”。就是再困难、再复杂的问题，也要拿到桌面上来谈，不沟通怎么能解决？我本人已做好随时与美方同行对话的准备。其次要聚焦合作。有很多领域可以也应该合作。抗疫合作应是当务之急，人命关天，合作为要。此外在经贸、执法、禁毒、地方等双边领域，气候变化、减贫等全球治理问题和朝核、中东、阿富汗等热点问题上，双方还有很多协调、合作空间。第三要管控分歧。两国有分歧是正常的，但要以理性和务实的态度处理分歧。尤其不能人为扩大分歧，更不能制造新的分歧。双方问题已经够多了，不能再做加法，而要想办法做减法。未来几个月十分关键，我们要保持定力，不被各种极端势力所左右，牢牢把握两国关系的正确方向，确保其不失控、不脱轨。

First, keep the lines of communication open. Dialogue should not be put on hold. In particular, there should be no “radio silence” between the two foreign ministries. That means no matter how difficult and complex the issues may be, they should be put on the table. How can any problem get resolved without discussions? I myself stand ready for talks with my US counterpart at any time.

Second, focus on cooperation. There are many areas where the two countries can and should cooperate. Cooperation in COVID-19 response should be a first-order priority. When lives are at stake, cooperation should come first. In addition, there is vast room for coordination and cooperation in bilateral areas such as economy, trade, law enforcement, counter-narcotics, and sub-national exchanges, on global governance such as climate change and poverty relief, and on hotspot issues such as the Korean nuclear issue, the Middle East, and Afghanistan.

Third, properly manage differences. Disagreements exist naturally between China and the United States, and they should be handled with a rational and pragmatic attitude. In particular, differences must not be widened on purpose, let alone creating new ones. There are already too many problems for the two sides, and what is needed is subtraction rather than addition.

The next few months will be critical. We must stay focused without being swayed by any extreme forces, keep to the right direction of the bilateral relationship, and prevent it from spiraling out of control or getting derailed.